‘Queer drain’ being documented in Montana as legislature advances contentious bills

Transgender rights protesters outside the Montana State Capitol on Monday, April 24, 2023. (Blair Miller/The Daily Montanan)

Charley Macorn loves Montana, their home for 38 years, but Macorn also fears Montana isn’t capable of loving her back.

“I love Montana with so much of my heart,” said Macorn, who goes by they/she pronouns. “I loved the beauty. I loved the community. I loved the friendliness of neighbors.”

But housing prices are expensive and climbing, it’s hard to make ends meet in Missoula, and in September 2024, Macorn and their wife moved to Hillsboro, outside Portland, Oregon.

Cost, however, wasn’t the only reason the couple moved. Macron also left because of their experience being a transgender person in Montana.

Now, they are sharing their story about being part of the “queer drain” for an oral history project at the University of Montana as the state Legislature advances more proposals that would affect people who are transgender.

UM faculty member Elizabeth Hubble said the oral history project to document the experiences of people who are LGBTIQ+ was sparked by a conversation between one of her colleagues, Anya Jabour, and a UM alum and transgender athlete about friends and colleagues leaving the state for similar reasons.

“We need to get these stories down,” Hubble said.

A bad feeling at home

In Missoula, Macorn was a public figure, an emcee, prominent comedian, writer, thespian, film festival and drag show producer, and adjunct at the University of Montana — “weirdo” is how Macorn sums it up.

After working in Missoula without a problem for years, Macron, openly transgender, started getting hate mail, and at events they were planning, bomb dogs had to run through venues first.

Then, at the Capitol to testify in 2023 on bills that would affect LGBTQ+ people, they heard testimony that gave them a bad feeling, that Montana would be a good place if all transgender people would move away, or even worse.

“My thought was that a good portion of the population would sit by and let awful things happen to Montana’s trans population,” Macorn said. “It’s not that they would want us to just move away — they’d sit back and let us die.”

It started to feel like it was time to go.

“As a student of history, I very much had that feeling of, ‘I’ve got to get out of here.’”

The feeling evolved into a plan during a trip to Seattle visiting friends, when Macorn and her wife, also a native Montanan, had an exchange after a “touristy” day.

“At the end of the day, we were sitting on the tailgate of our truck watching the sunset, and she turned to me and said, ‘Have you noticed the whole time we’ve been here, people have treated us like human beings?’” Macorn said. “I had that feeling of, ‘Oh, f***, that is what that feeling is.’”

So the couple moved away. Macorn’s wife, Bree Sutherland, is a master electrician, and the couple is making more money, putting dollars in their savings account, and living in a place that doesn’t question whether they fit in.

“I wasn’t aware of how heavy that was, how much of a burden that was, of living life, until we moved to a place where there’s more trans people, there’s more queer people, and more importantly, there’s more people that have met trans people before,” Macorn said. “It’s like a different world, and it’s kind of bittersweet.”

‘Stop erasing … history’

The oral history project, called “Queer In And Out Of Montana,” involves documenting stories from LGBTQ+ people who have left Montana, those who plan to leave “in response to the state’s hostile political climate,” and those who plan to stay despite it, Hubble said. More recently, plans also include helping people carry out their intentions.

For example, those leaving might ask, “How do you get out of a lease?” Hubble said. Those staying might wonder, “What are the support groups and organizational groups in Missoula if you do want to stay?”

Transgender and LGBTQ+ people have always been in Montana, including cook and ranch hand Sammy Williams, with a more famous story, Hubble said. Williams lived a life as a man, she said, but was found to be a transgender man upon his death in Manhattan, Montana, in 1908.

“Queer history is not a new thing,” Hubble said. And she said it isn’t new to see people whose sexuality and genders don’t match what has been considered the norm. “We have to stop erasing that part of history. And so that’s what is motivating (the project).”

Faculty from Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies program; the Department of Psychology; and the Department of History are involved in the project, and current and former students are working on the research and gathering resources and conducting interviews.

The Maureen and Mike Mansfield Library Archives and Special Collections at UM supports accepting those oral histories into its archives, Hubble said. Off campus, she said, the Western Montana LGBTQ+ Community Center is involved, and an adjacent project documenting the history of transgender people in Montana is underway at the Historical Museum at Fort Missoula.

Interviews are taking place, and an estimated 20 people so far are on the list, including individuals and families who have left to protect their children, Hubble said.

The project is taking place as the Trump administration makes aggressive moves on multiple fronts, including “defending women from gender ideology extremism.” On his first day in office, President Donald Trump signed an order that makes it the “policy of the United States to recognize two sexes, male and female.”

Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention removed or edited references to transgender people, gender identity and equity, including web pages about supporting health for LGBTQ+ youth, national outlets reported.

Hubble said some people have contacted team members to volunteer to be part of the oral history project, but she said she knows some people are scared to tell their stories — “we’re watching the T (trans) and Q (queer) get erased from our federal government websites.”

Lawmakers debate

In Montana, at least three bills at the Legislature are under consideration this session that would affect people who are transgender or nonbinary. All three are moving quickly and, if approved, likely to be signed by Gov. Greg Gianforte.

One is a “bathroom bill,” House Bill 121, covering public buildings and domestic violence shelters. Another, Senate Bill 164, would make it a felony for a parent to seek care or for a transgender youth or a doctor to provide it, or to alter the appearance of a child, which opponents said could encompass fixing scoliosis or a cleft palate.

House Bill 300, approved in a key vote on party lines on the House floor on Wednesday, seeks in part to keep people whose sex is male out of athletic programs for females. It also states it is discriminatory for education institutions to fail to provide individual access to bathrooms and dorms that aren’t accessible to people of the opposite sex while in use.

Already, 25 states have laws that ban transgender students from participating in sports consistent with their gender identity, according to the Movement Advancement Project.

HB 300 has one more vote to go on the House floor, but on the same day it cleared a significant hurdle in Montana, President Trump signed an order banning transgender student athletes from women’s sports. Republican political leaders in Montana, including Lt. Gov. Kristen Juras and Superintendent of Public Instruction Susie Hedalen, held a press conference to celebrate the bill.

The event also intended to commemorate National Girls and Women in Sports Day, “a national celebration recognizing the achievements of female athletes and the importance of equal opportunities in sports.”

In Montana, previous legislation has tried to define sex as strictly male or female, although the American Medical Association has said sex is not exclusively male or female, it includes variations, and it can also change over time.

During debate on the floor Wednesday, Rep. SJ Howell, D-Missoula, said it is “an incredible act of hubris” for the 100 people in the room to think they know all there is to know about humanity and what God has created in the universe and condense it onto a piece of paper.

“The rich tapestry of humanity is a little more beautiful and diverse than we want to boil it down to,” Howell said.

Rep. Peter Strand, D-Bozeman, offered different reasons for opposing it. He said Montanans sent him to the Capitol to deal with the high cost of housing, to fund public schools, and help people with child care and medical care that doesn’t break the bank.

“That’s why we’re in this room,” Strand said. “For us to spend tax dollars and our precious time in this room dealing with an issue that deals with nothing is just wrong.”

But in defense of her bill, Rep. Kerri Seekins-Crowe, R-Billings, said it aims to address “a contagion that is going rampant” in the country, starting with a few people, but changing women’s sports, and women should not have to acquiesce. She said the bill is about equality, to ensure women aren’t denied medals, scholarships and leadership opportunities.

“What’s the cost of not protecting women?” Seekins-Crowe said.

‘If they cannot trust the help’

This week, the Senate approved SB 164, which would make it a felony for a parent to seek care for transgender youth or a doctor to provide it, albeit with a couple of Republicans in opposition.

Sen. Wendy McKamey, R-Great Falls, said the bill would turn parents into felons when they are trying to find answers to difficult questions for their children, and the Legislature should support them, not threaten them with punishment.

“If they cannot trust the help, if they cannot find the help, if they think that they’re going to be penalized by trying to find this help, they’re not going to seek the help,” McKamey said.

The Senate approved the bill this week on a 30-20 vote, with McKamey and Republican Sen. Russ Tempel of Chester joining 18 Democrats in opposition.

A couple of senators referred to “mutilation,” and Sen. Laura Smith, D-Helena, asked legislators to be accurate when discussing bills. According to medical protocol, individuals must be at least 18 for surgery, Smith said.

Also Wednesday, House Bill 121, the “bathroom bill,” was approved in the Senate Judiciary committee on party lines after being approved in the House the first month of the 2025 legislative session.

Similar bills from 2021 and 2023, supported by Republican legislators and Gov. Greg Gianforte, have landed in court, and at least a couple of them have been deemed unconstitutional, but Republicans continue to push them, along with legislation that aims to move the courts in their direction.

At UM, Erin Heaton, a senior studying social work, sociology and women’s, gender and sexuality studies is participating in the oral history project because they believe it is important to share stories of people who are leaving.

“Now is the time when the existence of queer and trans people is being villainized,” Heaton said.

Heaton said some people may be pillars of their communities, but others may simply be people who enjoy Montana. Heaton said they’re all facing emboldened rhetoric, partly due to legislation, and it’s important to document their stories.

“I just want this project to be proof that no one is going to sit around and be idle while these things are happening,” Heaton said.

Leaving home

In Oregon, Macorn said her wife is making nearly three times more money, their rent is cheaper, and they don’t have some of the same worries.

The bills the Legislature is approving will continue to entice people like them, educated, professional people, taxpayers, out of the state, they said, although Macorn also knows people who want to leave but can’t afford it. Macorn worries in particular about further disenfranchising transgender people and Two-Spirit Native Americans.

“I’m talking to people back in Montana who are scrambling to get out of the state, but they don’t have the money, don’t have the resources,” Macorn said.

As for Macorn and her wife, the couple’s family both live in Montana.

In leaving, Macorn said they’ve left family, friends, routines, favorite parks, movie theaters, restaurants. Moving is stressful and expensive, and they are aware of the privilege they have in being able to do it, but leaving home is not easy.

“Starting over, I think anywhere, is difficult,” Macorn said. “But starting over because you felt you couldn’t stay for your own safety? I love Montana. I love it so much. It is my home, and I think it will always be. But there’s that point where you just have to realize it is incapable of loving you back.”