Incumbent Gov. Spencer Cox, left, shakes hands with Utah Rep. Phil Lyman after Utah’s gubernatorial GOP primary debate held at the Eccles Broadcast Center in Salt Lake City on Tuesday, June 11, 2024. (Pool photo by Isaac Hale/Deseret News)
Even though the attacks have been flying nonstop from his campaign — especially on social media — Rep. Phil Lyman took a different approach when he and Utah Gov. Spencer Cox faced off Tuesday night.
The two Republicans kept it civil during a televised gubernatorial debate ahead of the June 25 primary. The contest, hosted by the Utah Debate Commission and broadcast from PBS Utah’s studio in Salt Lake City, kept questions focused on big state-level policy issues.
Questions centered around housing affordability, homelessness, federal control versus state control, the Olympics possibly returning in 2034, and more — and the result was a respectful and tempered debate that yielded minimal rebuttals and no tense moments.
In a scrum with reporters after the debate ended, Cox even called it “unbelievably boring.”
“It was so boring,” he said, “and I hope it was boring for everyone who was watching because the best debates should be boring. They should be about policy.”
Lyman told reporters he did not lob any attacks Cox’s way Monday because “the debate format didn’t really facilitate that kind of a back-and-forth.”
“I’m not anxious to get into fiery debates, (but) I am interested in talking about the truth,” Lyman said. “I did feel like the debate, because of the format, was a little bit tame from what … would probably be more in my comfort zone.” Still, Lyman credited Cox and moderator Caroline Ballard, assistant news director for KUER, NPR Utah, for doing a “good job.”
It’s a vastly different tone that’s come from Lyman’s campaign, which has accused Cox, in various ways, of not being a true conservative. Earlier Tuesday ahead of the debate, his campaign sent an email to supporters saying, “As you’ll see this evening, Spencer Cox is more interested in following in the footsteps of Joe Biden and the Radical Left.”
Asked about that statement and other attacks that have come his way throughout the primary election season — but off of the debate stage — Cox told reporters “campaigns bring out the worst in people, sadly, and we’ve certainly seen that with my opponent’s campaign.”
Utah Rep. Phil Lyman speaks to members of the media after Utah’s gubernatorial GOP primary debate held at the Eccles Broadcast Center in Salt Lake City on Tuesday, June 11, 2024. (Pool photo by Isaac Hale/Deseret News)
“I promised I would run a positive campaign,” Cox said. “Look, it’s so much easier to lie and tear your opponent down. It is. It’s so much easier. And I’m sad that so many people fall into that trap, and I’m sad that my opponent has done it. He didn’t do it tonight, he didn’t do it to my face. But (he) apparently is willing to … say and do anything to tear down and get elected. We have far too many arsonists in our party, far too many arsonists in politics.”
So far, most of the real-life drama that’s played out in Utah’s governor’s race came in April when Cox was met with a sea of boos at the Utah Republican Party’s nominating convention from hardline party delegates who threw their full support behind Lyman.
Lyman won the party’s nomination with over 67% of the vote, though Cox still qualified for the primary ballot by gathering signatures.
Lyman has framed himself as a bulldog Republican ready to more aggressively take on the federal government, whether it be over public lands or immigration. He has also paraded his 10-day stint in jail for leading an illegal ATV ride in protest on federally protected lands in 2014. In 2020, then-President Donald Trump pardoned Lyman for the conviction.
Incumbent Gov. Spencer Cox speaks to members of the media after Utah’s gubernatorial GOP primary debate held at the Eccles Broadcast Center in Salt Lake City on Tuesday, June 11, 2024. (Pool photo by Isaac Hale/Deseret News)
Cox, on the other hand, has painted himself as a governor who tries to represent “everyone” in the state of Utah while also supporting conservative policies. Cox also continues to champion his “disagree better” campaign (his effort as chairman of the National Governors Association to discourage tribalism and political hatred).
On principles, both Lyman and Cox had similar stances, from supporting Utah’s abortion restrictions to fighting back against federal overreach. How they appeared to differ, though, was in approach.
To Lyman, Utah should be doing more than it already is to fight back, not satisfied with the dozens of lawsuits Utah is fighting in court regarding those issues. To Cox, litigation is what the state is and should be doing to fight back.
Here are some other highlights from the debate, when some differences between Cox and Lyman surfaced:
Housing
With Utah’s affordable housing crisis a No. 1 issue troubling Utah voters (according to a recent Utah Foundation report), both Lyman and Cox were asked how they would work to lower the state’s housing costs.
Cox said he’s already been working on tackling the issue alongside the Utah Legislature, pointing to a slate of bills passed this year that creates an arsenal of new tools to leverage financing to encourage cities and developers to increase the supply of “attainable” single-family homes around the price of $350,000, and his goal to build 35,000 new starter homes by 2028.
“We are working with developers right now,” Cox said. “They’re going to be able to get loans. We’re working with them to build these starter homes. … You’re going to see these homes start being built in just a few months.”
Lyman said he would focus on “free market” principles, pointing to Sen. Mike Lee’s proposed HOUSES Act that has been pitched as a way to increase availability of land and homes in Utah by allowing parcels of federal land to be purchased by state or local governments at a reduced price for housing development.
“We’ve got to do something to address the regulation costs,” Lyman said, adding it’s “almost impossible” to build a single-family home “because all of the incentives is to build high-density housing in population areas that are already densely populated, or to build commercial buildings or to go and build large mansions for those who can afford to pay for those.”
Lyman said “throwing money” at the issue “is not going to fix the problem.”
Olympics
Cox and Lyman were in totally different corners when it came to Utah being poised to usher the Olympics back in 2034.
Cox was enthusiastic about Utah hosting another Winter Games when asked about its estimated budget that was unveiled Monday (expected total $4 billion, including $2.83 billion in Games operating costs) and if state taxpayer funds should support the Games’ return.
“Utah’s financial responsibility should be zero, and it will be zero,” Cox said. “All of this is going to be paid for by sponsorships. It’s not going to cost the taxpayers a single penny, and we should be proud of that.”
Incumbent Gov. Spencer Cox speaks as he debates with Utah Rep. Phil Lyman during Utah’s gubernatorial GOP primary debate held at the Eccles Broadcast Center in Salt Lake City on Tuesday, June 11, 2024. (Pool photo by Isaac Hale/Deseret News)
Salt Lake City-Utah bid organizers have said no state or local public funding will be needed based on their proposed budget (though the federal government is expected to pay for security and transportation, as it usually does for Olympics and other major events).
Lyman, however, said when he’s spoken to Utahns, they question why Utah would need or want to host another Olympics. He cited “costs” for infrastructure and added “congestion” by bringing the world to Utah.
“It brings a lot of people to Utah. It brings a lot of people to Salt Lake City,” Lyman said, but those off the Wasatch Front “watch from afar.” Lyman said he “loves” the Olympics as a “huge economic driver,” but he added it comes with “tremendous costs to our city, to our state, and to the people living in Utah.”
Lyman then added he believed a poll wouldn’t show Utahns would be “overwhelmingly in favor” of “paying for and bringing” the Olympics to Utah again.
Cox then took rebuttal time to say, “we actually did take a poll, it just came out yesterday.” He was referring to a recent Deseret News/Hinckley Institute of Politics poll that found 79% of Utahns support Utah hosting another Winter Games.
“In this day and age, it is impossible to get 79% of anybody to agree on anything,” Cox said, adding he’s “not sure who my colleague is talking to,” but “people are excited for the Olympics to come back, and it’s not going cost us anything to host those Olympics.”
Lyman said he wasn’t aware of the poll, but he said his response comes from his talks with people off the Wasatch Front.
“I’m not saying the Olympics is unpopular; we all love the Olympics,” he said. “But to bring the Olympics to Utah again is a cost to our state and to our counties and to our communities. And to say otherwise is being disingenuous.”
Homelessness
In response to a question about laws requiring cities and counties to play a part in addressing homelessness, Cox and Lyman took differing perspectives.
Cox pointed to a multi-year effort at the Utah Legislature to encourage cities across the state to tackle homelessness as a statewide issue. He stood by that philosophy, though he said having previously served as a local elected official he knows how it feels when the Legislature tells cities what to do.
“This is, I will admit, nothing more maddening than when the Legislature puts unfunded mandates on our cities and towns,” Cox said, though he said homelessness “is one area where we have gotten more involved because homelessness should not just be seen as a Salt Lake City or a Salt Lake County issue. Homelessness is something that affects everyone in this state.”
Cox said his administration has “worked closely” with the Legislature to improve Utah’s homeless system — including over $50 million from the 2024 Utah Legislature — while also seeking to add more “accountability” around those dollars.
Lyman said it’s “frustrating” when the Legislature “takes powers away” from local governments.
“Mandates that come down from the state — funded or unfunded — are inappropriate,” Lyman said. “What should happen is that counties, municipalities, localities, make the decisions that they’re most affected by.”
In his answer, Lyman did not address whether the state should play a role to address homelessness.
Utah Rep. Phil Lyman speaks as he debates with incumbent Gov. Spencer Cox during Utah’s gubernatorial GOP primary debate held at the Eccles Broadcast Center in Salt Lake City on Tuesday, June 11, 2024. (Pool photo by Isaac Hale/Deseret News)
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