A Wednesday night debate made clear that Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and his opponent in Vermont’s race for the U.S. Senate, Republican Gerald Malloy, have opposite approaches to the weightiest policy issues — from abortion to affordability and health care to climate change.
Throughout the event, hosted by VTDigger and Vermont Public, Sanders went after Malloy’s support for former President Donald Trump and sought to tie the two Republicans together. Malloy, a U.S. Army veteran and government contractor, repeatedly criticized Sanders for what he described as 34 years of inaction and empty rhetoric in Congress.
Those arguments were on full display in Vermont Public’s Winooski television studio when the debate’s moderators gave the candidates time to ask one another questions.
Citing the Jan. 6, 2021, attacks on the U.S. Capitol, Trump’s denial of climate change, opposition to abortion rights and frequent false claims, Sanders asked Malloy why he supported the former president.
Malloy pointed to inflation, high gas prices, U.S. involvement in Ukraine and Israel, a “wide open southern border” and the opioid crisis — blaming the “progressive left” and Sanders himself for those woes.
“You’ve been a member of Congress for 34 years,” Malloy said. “You’ve watched this. People are dying. It’s time for action, not inaction.”
Sanders pressed again, telling Malloy he hadn’t answered the question.
Incumbent U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, smiles during a debate with Republican challenger Gerald Malloy in a forum sponsored by VTDigger and Vermont Public in Winooski on Wednesday, October 23. Photo by Glenn Russell/VTDigger
“The question is that you have an individual who lies all of the time,” Sanders said.
“In your opinion,” Malloy interjected, prompting a wide-eyed Sanders to respond, “not in my opinion.”
Malloy scolded Sanders for employing the type of rhetoric he said had led to two assassination attempts on Trump and said Sanders should not refer to the former president as a “pathological liar.”
“You know why?” Sanders responded, his voice continuing to rise. “Because he’s a pathological liar!”
“How about somebody who’s been making the same promises for 40 years and never delivers on them?” Malloy countered, his voice also rising. “That’s a pathological liar.”
As the candidates continued to talk over one another, co-moderator Mikaela Lefrak of Vermont Public cut in, telling Sanders and Malloy, “We’re trying to have a debate here, not a shouting contest.”
Malloy’s own question for Sanders brought about another spirited back-and-forth.
“You are 83 and seeking another six-year term,” Malloy said. “You’ve been in Congress 34 years and have delivered one bill of significance, other than post offices.”
Republican challenger Gerald Malloy speaks during a debate with incumbent U. S. Senator Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, right, in a forum sponsored by VTDigger and Vermont Public in Winooski on Wednesday, October 23. Photo by Glenn Russell/VTDigger
The senator has “talked more than 40 years about health care, housing, education, and you have not delivered legislation into law to improve these areas,” the Republican nominee said, asking, “you are all of a sudden going to start delivering legislative results, not just talk” to meet long-held goals?
Sanders was grinning by the end of the question.
“Let’s not be an ageist, Mr. Malloy,” he said. “It’s true, I am 83. I don’t know how old you are, but —”
“I’m 62,” Malloy said.
Vermont Public’s Mikaela LeFfak, second from left, and VTDigger’s Shaun Robinson moderate a debate between incumbent U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, left, and Republican challenger Gerald Malloy in Winooski on Wednesday, October 23. Photo by Glenn Russell/VTDigger
“Alright,” Sanders said, raising a hand. “You’re a very young man. But I am feeling just fine.”
Sanders defended his record and efficacy by pointing to the role he played, as chair of the Senate Budget Committee, in passing the 2021 American Rescue Plan Act in the wake of Covid-19. The law, he argued, supported hospitals, colleges and individuals — and helped to avoid evictions and lower the childhood poverty rate.
Sanders said he had also worked to lower the cost of prescription drugs, such as insulin and asthma inhalers, and planned in the next Congress to expand community health centers and work to lower student debt.
Another tense moment came when Lefrak asked the candidates whether Congress should “act to expand or curtail abortion access on the federal level.”
Malloy said Congress shouldn’t take such action, arguing that abortion laws should be set by the states. He agreed with the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, he said, but wouldn’t support a nationwide ban on abortion.
Lefrak noted that Malloy had previously articulated a different view. When he ran for Senate in 2022, Malloy was asked by an NBC5 reporter whether he would “vote to outlaw abortion in all cases,” even when the health of the pregnant person was at risk. At the time, Malloy responded, “I would, I would. I don’t know if that’s going to happen.”
“Right now, running for U.S. Senate, I am not going to support sweeping legislation, pro or con, at the U.S. Senate,” Malloy said on Wednesday. “It’s a state issue.”
When Lefrak posed the question to Sanders, he said he and Malloy had “a significant difference of opinion on this issue,” and he called the Supreme Court’s decision “an absolute disaster.”
“It took away women’s constitutional right to control their own bodies, and it is not acceptable to say that in Vermont, yeah, women have the right to control their own bodies, but in Mississippi or Alabama, they don’t,” Sanders said.
“Women have struggled since the inception of this country to gain first-class citizenship, and I don’t know anything more basic and fundamental about being a first-class citizen, an equal citizen, than having the right to control your own body.”
Sanders said he’d do “everything I can” to restore abortion rights.
Broadly, Sanders and Malloy agreed on some of the major challenges facing the country and the state, including affordability and health care, but they sharply disagreed on how to address them.
In response to a question about the high cost of living, Malloy said that, through overspending, Democrats had contributed to inflation.
Sanders noted that inflation rates were declining and attributed the problem to “the breaking of supply chains, but also the incredible level of corporate greed we’re seeing right now.”
“Mr. Malloy mentioned the high prices we pay in the grocery store,” Sanders said. “He’s right. Check out the level of corporate profits in the food industry, and the incredibly high prices they’re charging the American people.”
Incumbent U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, leaves after a debate with Republican challenger Gerald Malloy in Winooski on Wednesday, October 23. Photo by Glenn Russell/VTDigger
Asked about health care, Sanders, who currently chairs the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, said he was “taking on the very powerful pharmaceutical industry and lowering the cost of prescription drugs.” Americans pay more for health care than all other major countries, he said, noting that he had long argued that health care is a human right for all people.
Malloy said Sanders had been “grandstanding” with his advocacy on health care and pointed to Vermont’s failed attempt to adopt a single-payer health care system in 2014. He said the best way to address high health care costs was to improve transparency and introduce legislation that addresses competition, monopolies and collusion.
When Sanders asked Malloy whether he thought the United States should “provide health care for all people as a human right,” Malloy said he wasn’t in favor of the tax increases that such a system would spur, but that if the health care system was broken, Congress could “enact legislation to make it better.”
Read the story on VTDigger here: U.S. Senate candidates debate Bernie Sanders’ record and Gerald Malloy’s ties to Trump.